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Surferdude 
Water Slime
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 Topic: Shortboard pop up technique
Posted: 03 September 2009 at 9:46am |
I've been watching several youtube videos on shortboard pop up technique. There seems to be two schools of thought:
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Push off the rails and knees/forelegs to spring up onto both feet. With this method there is a moment where the surfer is completely in the air and not connected to the board, -or-
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Hold onto the rails, pivot the rear leg to the deck grip, and then stand up to position the forward leg while releasing the rails. With this method, the surfer is always connected to the board from laying down to standing up.
What do you do?
I tend to go w/ #1, but when I see it on video #2 seems much more smooth and controlled, which could result in better takeoffs.
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redheadedsurfer
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Posted: 03 September 2009 at 11:41am |
I tend to dispute number two. While it may work for some people, everyone that I know that rides shortboards, including myself, goes with number one. You don't ever want to try to place your back foot in a pivot position, and try to stand up on a board. You want to pop-up quickly to your feet. The pop-up takes some time to feel comfortable, but its definatley the way to go. Number two is more like trying to stand up on a board, and thats a no-no. I hang out with a bunch of surfer guys that have been surfing for 10-15 years, and I don't know anyone that does it like number two describes.
This is how the pop-up works on a shortboard:
1) Raise your chest of the board to create a clearing space for your legs.
2) Thrust your legs forward underneath you, use your knees/shins for leverage. Its a hard thrust, I like to imagine it like I am trying to hit myself in the face with my knees. You really got push the legs forward with velocity.
Edited by redheadedsurfer - 03 September 2009 at 11:43am
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vegas mike
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Posted: 03 September 2009 at 11:45am |
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i just had to lay down on the floor and see what i do.
i think i do a mix of both.
first thing i do is push up and put my back foot on the stop pad, next i bring my front foot up and let go of the board with my hands.
i've seen the "how to" video on youtube where the guy pops up like your #2 example. i don't do it like that.
it's more like a normal popup, but i make sure my rear foot is planted before i try to plant my front foot.
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twee
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Posted: 03 September 2009 at 7:45pm |
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Number 2 just seems way too slow, and there's so much time between putting your back leg and front leg on the board that I'd think it'd be way easier to mess up the pop-up.
I do it like Number 1, where I'm basically up in the air and both my feet land at the same time on the board.
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SurfScience
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Posted: 03 September 2009 at 8:09pm |
You want to be fast. I was talking to Martin Dunn last week, a surf coach from Australia, and he said the biggest tip he could give to beginners looking to move to the next step was to pop up quickly. If you can't pop up fast you can't surf at the peak and you can't get as much speed. So step #1 is to perfect the pop up. As far as momentarily leaving the board, yes that will happen, but its more of a slide than a jump. If you make too much of a jumping motion, you might be ok on small surf, but when you start air dropping you will find that there is the bottom of the wave, some air, your board, some air, you, some air and then the lip. And if all three don't connect perfectly there will be disaster. One way to help avoid this is to keep your hands on the rails as your feet swing under you. Your arms are actually guiding the board down the wave as your knee comes under you and that moment of disconnect doesn't happen until you're over the board and somewhat in control. Hope that helps and if you're at all interested in the Martin Dunn interview, you can check it out next week on SurfScience
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Surferdude
Water Slime
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Posted: 04 September 2009 at 8:44am |
Here are the videos I'm talking about: Method 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfbZIz61 ... re=relatedMethod 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUPcaitajuc2 looks very smooth, but not sure if it's as doable in the water. I'll check out the Martin Dunn interview, Surfscience.
Cheers,
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HydroxylicAcid
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Posted: 05 September 2009 at 5:36pm |
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I do #1 technique's also.
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bbrs240
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Posted: 25 October 2009 at 6:06pm |
I often use the SurfScience suggested approach with gripping the rails as a guide during the initial pop up. I find it helps with a nice turn down the line, as long as I am in a low crouching position.
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redheadedsurfer
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 11:15am |
Hi everyone, I'm one of those surfer thats in the transition phase from long-to-short boarding.
I do have a question about the shortboard popup. I surf with many shortboarders, and they all say they push up directly to their feet, and they don't really use knees as thier leverage point. But thats impossible isn't it? Its literally not feasable to do a push up directly to your feet. One thing is for sure, their pop-up is super fast.
I'm asking this because my shortboard popup is very slow, I can popup, but on waves that are steep and the lip is pitching I usually eat it because my pop up is too slow. I'm good if I can get a good paddle into a wave, but on those steep/quick drops, I'm having difficulty because my pop is too slow.
How do you increase the speed of your pop, to get to your feet quickly, and is it feasable to do a pushup directly to your feet? That just doesn't seem possible to me, you need a leverage point right?
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wave1173
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 11:40am |
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can you do a exercise push-up without using your knees ( just palms and toes bracing up your body )? ever see those military drills where the soldier holds his rifle over his head ,then gets ordered to get on the ground , then ordered to get to his feet . if you are somber asleep on the living room floor , and someone yells " FIRE !! " , i think you can pop up to your feet with out using your knees . your leverage is you arms thrusting your upper body up high enough so you legs can rotate under your torso .
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redheadedsurfer
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 1:04pm |
Wave- I've been practices my pops in my living room, and its absolutely impossible (I think so anyway) to pop up straight to your feet without using some kind of lower body leverage point. Maybe in the water its different because you can push your board down into the water, creating more space. I'm 6'2, 185lbs, in pretty good shape, can do lots of pushups. I would say my upper body/chest strength very decent. As your swinging your legs under you, that momentum to thrust your legs forward has to come from somewhere.....I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just confused....lol
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vegas mike
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 1:22pm |
Originally posted by redheadedsurfer
Wave- I've been practices my pops in my living room, and its absolutely impossible (I think so anyway) to pop up straight to your feet without using some kind of lower body leverage point. Maybe in the water its different because you can push your board down into the water, creating more space. I'm 6'2, 185lbs, in pretty good shape, can do lots of pushups. I would say my upper body/chest strength very decent. As your swinging your legs under you, that momentum to thrust your legs forward has to come from somewhere.....I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just confused....lol
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this is what i used to do.
i used it like a whip.
i'd push up with my hands into a form like this
obviously not that exaggerated.
from there i'd pop my ass in the air and throw my feet under me.
very similar to the reverse worm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrkZgK2ErFw
Edited by vegas mike - 30 October 2009 at 1:23pm
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The guys who can't catch a wave cause their board is Too Sweet.... they're the kooks.
-Baratacus
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Baratacus
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 3:33pm |
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actualy it probably really is that exaggerated when you are goin though the motion. The arched back is something that you should always use surfing. Both in popping up and while paddling. I surf long boards and i don't use my knees. sometimes they drag while I'm pulling my feet under me, but I never go to my knees or use them as leverage. When you pop up you also need to do it with your hands flat on the deck and not grabbing the rails. It IS impossible to pop straight to your feet while holding the rails since you can't just let go of one rail at a time without tipping the board over. you need to hang on to them untill you can let go of both of them at the same time. You can't let go of both rails unless your feet or knees are planted on the deck. and trying to go straight to your feet while holding the rails puts you in a stooped over position for a face plant. Thus, don't grab your rails unless you plan on doing the 2 stage kneeling raise... which is not a pop up!
Edited by Baratacus - 30 October 2009 at 3:42pm
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You can't smell fear unless the fearfull have loose bowels.
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vegas mike
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 3:46pm |
Originally posted by Baratacus
actualy it probably really is that exaggerated when you are goin though the motion. |
yeah it might be, but when i picture it in my head it doesn't feel that arched.
i'd get on the floor and do it right now, but my back is sore from a couple wipeouts yesterday
one of them was pretty bad tweaked my back real good.
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The guys who can't catch a wave cause their board is Too Sweet.... they're the kooks.
-Baratacus
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redheadedsurfer
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 3:59pm |
I do it exactly how VegasMike has described it, I've just not quite perfected it on the shortboard. I think its pretty much impossible to do a push up straight to your feet as my friends say they do. For those that don't believe me, lie on the ground, keep your lower body absolutely motionless, and silent (don't move from the waist down), and do a push up with your arms and see if that push with the arms generates enough velocity for you to stand on your feet, its absolutely impossible! I think the arched back creates the coil, and it all falls into place from there. I've just heard allot of surfers say "I push up straight to my feet", and I don't think thats a true statement. I think when the pop is done correctly, it probably feels seamless, like a push up straight to the feet, but the pop is generated and, from what I can tell, is more of a back and hip movement than it is a pushup. The only time your really using the arms is to raise your chest of the board to create the clearence space, but its all back and hips from there.
This is my two cents worth anyway, thanks for the comments guys, these forum is great
One other item of note, I've seen youtube instructional videos where surfer teachers are saying "push up to your feet", and I just don't think thats an accurate statement at all! It really confuses the beginning surfer.
Edited by redheadedsurfer - 30 October 2009 at 4:01pm
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vegas mike
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 4:09pm |
i think you are over thinking it.
don't worry about or focus on where you are getting the leverage. just push up using your arms and put your feet where they need to be.
don't worry so much about what is in between those two things.
kinda like my daily drives i go on.
i know where i'm starting (my house) and i know where i'm ending (my house) all the in between stuff is just filler 
doing popups on steeper and bigger waves just takes practice. unfortunately you get pitched off the lip while learning it.
hell right now i ride a bodyboard and i got pitched off a lip yesterday. i don't even need to pop up on a bodyboard.
something i used to do when riding a short board was catch the wave at an angle so i'm already pointing the direction i want to go. makes the drop in less steep
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The guys who can't catch a wave cause their board is Too Sweet.... they're the kooks.
-Baratacus
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Baratacus
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 4:43pm |
I just did a pop up on the floor in front of the mirror. I found out two things I can't do... One being the reverse worm, and the other is to arch as hard as that picture mike posted :P
I am able to pop up to my feet without kneeling, but doing it on dry land my legs do drag as I pull my legs under me but I do not kneel on them. Doing a pop up in the water is easier, since your board is usually dropping away from you down the wave as you pop. If I drug my knees on my board in the water doing popups, the textured kneepads on my wetsuit would be loaded with wax... like the butt of my wetsuit.
They say "push up to your feet" because the urge is to push up to your knees and climb to your feet. You need to bring those feet under you in one smooth movement.
also when popping up, don't put your hands up by your shoulders like when you do a pushup. Your hands should be planted right where your belly contacts the board as you arch your back.
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You can't smell fear unless the fearfull have loose bowels.
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wave1173
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Posted: 30 October 2009 at 5:55pm |
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what is with all the IMPOSSIBLES ? if you see surfers popping up not using theirs knees then its possible ( difficult at first , but possible for the beginners ) redhead - if you dont mind trying , let me give my pointers i give to my students .
1) lay on the floor . palms by your armpits . feet are supported by the toe print areas of the tip toes .
2) extend your arms until they are straight . hip bones still touching the floor . ( doesnt have to look like the flexible girl in the photo - plus the top of her foot is touching the floor )keep looking forward .
3) raise your butt to the sky . as it rises , it should natural go a little bit rearward . your body will form a triangle . hand , toes and butt . butt being the highest point . do not look down ! keep your eyes focus forward at all times .
4) now bring your front foot forward . allow your hip to rotate with it
toes should be pointed 1-2 o'clock if the nose of the board is 12 noon
5) if your front foot went far enough , your back foot should have naturally went from just toes to the inner arch and side of the heel touching the board ( toes pinting to 3 o'clock ). too far , and your front knee would toch your chest - keep space between your chest and knee - do not let them touch ). drag that back foot forward a bit ( practice will tell you how much - but lets say shoulders width apart from the front foot .
5) push up hard off your hands , do not just let go , actually shove the board ( floor ) away , so it thrust the torso up and back . get that head over your butt so they are inline top to bottom . belly button facing to the side , not forward .
no knees are involved . but you might say its not quick enough . well practice the basic up , then throw in some energy to make it pop ( later ). right when your about to push up your hand , iniciate the front foot a nano-second before the back foot . jump with both feet to where your hands were , as you hands a milli-second before got it and your torso out of the way .
you see the shortboarders doing it , you can to ! it is not impossible .
remember Practice Does not make it Perfect - Practice makes it Permanent ! if you keep practicing Wrong , you will be Better at Wrong . get someone to help watch you as you pop up .
Edited by wave1173 - 30 October 2009 at 6:08pm
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wave1173
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Posted: 04 November 2009 at 9:31am |
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redheadsurfer- so how's the pop up going ?
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twee
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Posted: 04 November 2009 at 11:30pm |
Ever hear of a burpee?
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/burpeeclip.htmBasically do that on the board.
Edited by twee - 04 November 2009 at 11:33pm
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elegantmess
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Posted: 05 November 2009 at 10:31am |
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great tip
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good things come to those who wait
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vegas mike
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Posted: 05 November 2009 at 10:38am |
that's one of the best exercises you can do.
do that and mix in a hindu pushup every other time it will kick your ass
also at the top of the burpee, jump as high as you can
Edited by vegas mike - 05 November 2009 at 10:40am
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The guys who can't catch a wave cause their board is Too Sweet.... they're the kooks.
-Baratacus
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Sean
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Posted: 07 December 2009 at 4:00pm |
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Check this video out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hfqNEvp2gg
The problem is, a lot of these YouTube videos show the surfer using toes. But that is totally wrong. On a shortboard you can't push off the water...makes no sense. So it's all upper body.
Is this video done right?
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Cole****
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Posted: 12 December 2009 at 11:03pm |
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Hey guys can you help me out with my question. It is kinda similar. http://www.surfingsandiego.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4142
Thank you
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Sean
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Posted: 17 December 2009 at 4:30pm |
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Hi everyone, I am glad I found this forum as it has helped me. I had one question. I'm 5'10, 145 lbs. I'm riding a fish right now. The fish is 5'11, 3 inches thick and I think 20 inches wide. My question for you guys is...should I stick to learning on this or go with a longrboard? If I go with a longboard will that make it hard to transition to a shortboard? I eventually want to end up on a shortboard. Thanks for all the help.
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Baratacus
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Posted: 18 December 2009 at 12:40am |
Starting on a long board will get your basics down faster. Once you have those down it's easier to transition to a short board than it is to start learning on a shorter board. Learning on a shorter board will mean a lot more failed attempts and it will be very difficult to discern what you are doing wrong on a shorter board. They are a lot more sensative to placement of your feet and shifting of your weight, so if you don't get it just right, you won't be up and learning how to ride very soon.
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You can't smell fear unless the fearfull have loose bowels.
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redheadedsurfer
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Posted: 18 December 2009 at 8:19am |
Originally posted by Baratacus
Starting on a long board will get your basics down faster. Once you have those down it's easier to transition to a short board than it is to start learning on a shorter board. Learning on a shorter board will mean a lot more failed attempts and it will be very difficult to discern what you are doing wrong on a shorter board. They are a lot more sensative to placement of your feet and shifting of your weight, so if you don't get it just right, you won't be up and learning how to ride very soon. |
I agree with what your saying, I just wanted to offer my personal perspective on this. I think that starting on a LB is the convential school of thought, and its really good for surfers who are a little out of shape, or just want to start having fun immediately. But I am one of those surfers that started on an LB, and I am currently transitionig to a SB/Fish. I can honeslty say that shortboarding is a completely different sport than longboarding, and I sometimes feel like I am learning to surf all over again. I wish I would have started on a funshape around a 7'2 to 7'4, maybe I wouldn't have started catching waves right away if I had started on a funshape, but I think it would have made the transition down allot easier. I'm not disagreeing with what your saying though, I think that longboarding is a great place to begin the surfing journey.
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wave1173
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Posted: 18 December 2009 at 9:34am |
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not sure if you do Moto-X or dirt bikes ? if you went up to a track as a begginer and said you wanted to start on a 500cc 2-stroke ,they would say you're crazy . maybe start on a 125 class, then 250 class . in Japan theres different levels for motorcycles . 50 , 125 , 250 , 400 , 750-above . a 15 year old kid cant just go to the shop and by a 1000cc Gixxer superbike like he could in the U.S. Surfing has a progression level too . but the main thing is the right vehicle for the right course . small rollers slopey - bigger floaty fuller shapes . pitching powerful quick breaking - more pulled in less volume shapes .
learn the basics on a bigger board first , then work your way down to a more progressive board as you skills and knowledge of waves increase .
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Baratacus
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Posted: 18 December 2009 at 8:19pm |
I've taught a lot of friends how to surf, and I always put them on the biggest board I have. I've had 3 friends in the last 20 years that were insistant on learning on a shortboard. They refused to even try the longboard. One of them gave up trying after about 2 weeks of straight failure, lost the stoke and never learned to surf. The other two gave up after a couple weeks, and reluctantly went to the long boards. They were standing up on a wave their first go-out with the long board. One stayed with the long board, while the other moved to midsize and then to shorty. Transitioning does take time, but it's part of the evolutionary process.
Red if you're having trouble transitioning, maybe you need to go to an intermediate board first. A lot of people go through a couple transions on there way to a shortboard. Getting the basics on the longboard is necessary. Transitioning to a mid-size board you can refine your technique and ballance, learn to feel the wave more, then when you move to the short board you have the skill to ride one and you don't end up looking like a Spaz having a siezure.
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You can't smell fear unless the fearfull have loose bowels.
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superkook
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Posted: 19 December 2009 at 1:19am |
Originally posted by vegas mike
this is what i used to do.
i used it like a whip.
i'd push up with my hands into a form like this
obviously not that exaggerated.
from there i'd pop my ass in the air and throw my feet under me.
very similar to the reverse worm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrkZgK2ErFw |
In yoga, that's Upward Facing Dog.
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